Boot & Frame Alignment

[cbarrett017]

Howdy,

I could use some good natured assistance. I recently purchased a pair of K2 Radical 100’s. They are my first pair of “speed” skates. I am an active outdoor skater. I completed the full 87 miles of the last A2A on an ancient pair of K2 4x80’s. I also covered on average 160 miles a week leading up to the event. Which brings me to my point - I am familiar with a recreational skate, but I am at a loss with configuring my boot-frame alignment on the new skates.

I enjoy the power I can produce with the long frame and big wheel, but I am having a difficult time setting the wheel on the outside edge to start my double push. I tried sliding the frame in towards the center, but this seems not to have helped either (not to mention it feels less stable). I am not certain my thinking is correct.

Secondly, I have read from other skaters that no boot is entirely comfortable, but the pain(s) my boots have caused are excessive. I can usually suffer through a 2 -3 hour session, but as soon as I take the boots off the pain and cramping in my feet is excruciating (to the point of tears). I’ve worn nasty sores inside my heels where the boot joint is and suffered terrible lacerations at the outside of my ankles above the bone (I stuff neoprene carpet padding into my socks now). The bursa sacks to the front of my ankle bones are swollen and look like little “horns”. Somehow I just think this is not how it is supposed to be.

I really want (need) these skates to work for me. Honestly I cannot afford to replace the boots. I’ve been told by a couple of retailers that the frame, wheels, and bearings are great, but they’ve both heard numerous complaints about this K2 boot. I’m at a loss. If I could have afforded to drop $1000+ on skates I would have in an instant. I don’t think I should be punished for my desire to move out of a recreational setup.

Chuck

[tenienteskates]

Wow! really I admire your preparation, move the frame 1 to 1 mm, are you supinator o pronator? In K2rad100 it`s a challenge the DP, check the tip by Patrick Creveling "Don`t let the wrong edges slow you down " Oct 6 2006. Tip from me, first enjoy the speed. Bye champ.

[SkateCoach]

Hi Chuck.

If you haven't already, please see Monday's Skate Coach column on fixing skate fit problems. The EZfitSports booties described there should go a long way towards keeping your skates from chewing up your feet like that. From the sounds of things, you'll probably need to give your feet some time to heal from all those wounds, so order them online (http://www.EZfitSports.com) with standard shipping and stay off your skates 'til they arrive! Some of the other tips in that column may also be helpful to you.

Next, remember that breaking in new boots is supposed to be a gradual process. Part of the point of the whole process is to let your skin build up some callouses, etc., to protect itself from the new boots' pressure points and friction spots. If you rip your skin off, this will obviously be counterproductive!

As for frame adjustments and your stride, this isn't the right forum for detailed discussions of the double push, but I will point out that any time you move up to a longer frame, the skates tend to track straighter. This is normal and to be expected. You don't necessarily need to make frame adjustments. You may just need to get used to the new frame length.

When your feet have healed and you've fixed the fit problems, get thoroughly used to the way the new skates track and turn, work through all the drills you did to learn the double push in the first place and then and only then, try your double push. Hint: You'll find it easier to do at higher speeds because the speed will make it a little easier to turn the skates through the arcs that make up the double push.

For safety's sake, I repeat: Go through all the drills in your new longer frames first, even if it takes weeks to relearn the stride in the new longer frames. Please, please, everyone, don't just zoom up to your top speed in new frames and try to whip out a double push. The longer frames won't behave like your rec skates and you could end up with your whole body looking like Chuck's poor feet!

As for frame adjustments, in my opinion you should really only be making frame adjustments for one of two reasons:

1. The frame isn't properly centered under your foot so you have a tendency to pronate or supinate in this particular pair of skates. Move the entire frame (front and back bolts) over 1mm at time until the problem goes away.

2. No matter how hard you try, you cannot set your foot down on a straight line in the direction of travel. (In other words you're setting your foot down either pigeon-toed so the skate is pointing slightly across your center line, or turned out like a ballerina and your foot is pointed slightly diagonally off to the side of the trail somewhere. Have someone watch you from behind to see if either of these are a problem.

If so, you would adjust the frame at only one of the bolts to change the angle of the frame to compensate for your pigeon-toedness, or your ballerina feet...um, or maybe to put them back into a straight alignment if you've gotten them off track during all this experimenting!

Even if you only adjust one frame bolt, be sure to re-tighten both, as moving the frame at one end often loosens the other bolt, too. Re-apply loc-tite if it's all been stripped away, too, so vibration doesn't loosen your frame bolts while you're out skating - yikes!

Finally, to everyone who buys skates over the internet, thoroughly check out the return policy before you buy. Usually, the skates are only returnable if they are in new condition, which means trying them on and beginning the break-in process on carpet where the wheels won't show any wear. If the skates are killing your feet at this point, you'll still be able to return them in new condition and order a different pair.

Chuck, if your skates aren't bloodstained or showing any wear at all other than on the wheels, and if the internet merchant you bought them through has such a return policy, you might consider buying a new set of wheels to put the skates back into new condition, and returning them. Otherwise, you're stuck with trying to sell them on E-bay or through one of the racing forums, I'm afraid.

Good luck, and please don't give up skating because of this unfortunate experience.

[pdinphx]

Chuck,

You're right ... a little pain during the break-in process is normal. Unfortunately, this also means that you might need to take short breaks of a week or so in order to allow your feet to heal.

Standard frame alignment:

Front wheel, situated between your big toe and (what would be) your index toe.

Rear wheel, lined up with your Achilles tendon. You may need another person to help you line up the rear ...

An easy test to determine if the frames are aligned properly:

Put your feet in your boots - and without strapping or lacing them up - stand upright. If you're able to maintain your balance, the frames should be close to properly aligned. From here, minor adjustments may be necessary to optimize your skating platform.

If you find your ankles collapsing, you may need to strengthen them before you attempt any sort of real distance skating/double push. You should be achieving an outside edge not by flexing your ankles, but by transfering your body weight. Your ankle should be locked upon setdown; you then use the skate/wheels as a fulcrum point.

Glenn Koski emailed me a still shot of Joey Mantia which illustrates this perfectly ... post your email address and I'll send it to you.

The EZfit booties are awesome; I know quite a few skaters who use them. Another temporary fix is to use [good quality] duct tape and qauze pads over the sore spots, if you absolutely must skate.

One thing you didn't specify was what type of sock you are wearing when you skate. Thick socks generally cause more problems then they cure; if you wear socks, try thin cycling socks -- these are generally made of Coolmax or similar sweat-wicking material.

Keep us apprised of your progress. That's what we're here for!

[skatenow]

From the description of the boots cutting into your outer ankle bones, you are collaping inward. Now whether that is resulting from standing too upright, prontating, or incorrect frame position, or improper technique or a combination thereof, is hard to say having not seen you skating.

Boot Fit: check your boot fit. A "performance" skate should fit you snugly, with no room past your toes. Try this little test: Get into the skate and slide your feet forward until your toes touch the ends. Then flex ankles forward. If you can slip a pencil or your index finger behind your heels easily, the botos are too big. Too much room in the boots can contribute to blistering or pressure points as well from heel lift or the ankle collaping in the boot due to too much volume in the boots. If the skates are found to be too big, re-sell them online/consignment shops, and get a pair that fits properly. It may be your foot cramps because you are trying to hold yor self in the boots? If it s a close / good fit, you can try replacing the footbed with a better quality orthodic type that supports the arch. Supporting the arch will help keep the arch from flattenting out and allowing the foot to prontate inwards.

Check socks: Another culprit be your socks. Cotton socks will get scrunched and cause friction on the inside of the boots, and put undue pressure against the skin or rub causing blisters or raw spots. Wear a thin micro fiber sock. The EzeeFits as describere above are truly life savers for ankles. Wear them under your socks, not over.

Frame allignment: as discussed above: start in neutral positoin with the frame , adjust as required. Neutral is: aligned with achillies tendon in the rear, and the front end allligned with a line between your big toe and second toe. From there begin to move the frame as necessary, ONLY, as pointed out above "after" eliminating other possible factors.

Skating postion: Be certain you are not skating too upright, or driving knees inward. It is easy get ourselves upright on longer skates as we fatigue; legs get tired we stand up. Try this little exercise: Stand upright, feet parallel, no more than hip width apart, barefoot, on a hard surface floor. Roll your ankles....easy isn't it?! Now, flex ankles forward, with knees over toe, lowering hips and sinking into skating position. Again, roll your ankles. You'll discover that it takes the larger muscle groups (legs and hips) to engage now to roll your ankles? Our ankle works like a 3-way hinge. When upright it is free to roll, when we lower into skating position it gets locked into place. When ankles roll, they can collapse inward. Another point regarding postion, be certain your knees are truly over your toes when skating, and not dropping inwards. Knees pointing inward can force your ankles inward and result in collaping. Have someone video a segment of you skating and take a good look at your form in slo-mo. Believe me a pic is worth a 1000 words. Look for the things above, also look at your hips - are you getting your hip outside enough to even get you onto the outside edge. When upgrading from smaller wheel frames to larger wheels frames there is a tendency to keep the body back towards center [safe] position. Lean angles increase when as the frame size increases, this requires more lateral muscle motion from the skater. Something your muscles may not be used to yet. If muscles are not prepared to hold you out there, you may be cutting it short. Or collaping your ankle by holding your weight on release foot as you set down on the new foot.

As you can gather from all the dicussions on the topic, there are many factors that come into play. Take your time to isolate and assess each one, and eliminate problems.

Hope this helps!

[chaosdsm]

The Radical 100's aren't really speed skates, they are more of a high end / high performance fitness/marathon skate, & they should be quite comfortable for skating in unless they are to loose.

I too moved from 4x80mm to 4x100mm wheels, & it does take some time to get accustomed to the differences, probably even more so (mileage wise, not time wise) due to the amount of miles spent in the 4x80 skates. Took me about 2 months to get truly adjusted to the new skates, Rollerblade Lighting 10's in my case, basicly the Rollerblade version of the Radical 100's.

I cannot really expand upon what's been said here, other than letting your wounds heal can really make a big difference. Wounds or not, you really need to take some time off every once in a while anyway, if for no other reason that to keep from getting burned out on skating...

That &, I also recommend & endorse the ezeefit booties. They come in 1mm, 2mm, & 3mm thicknesses, which ones you need will depend upon how your skates fit. For a very tight fitting skate, 1mm with or without socks, for a very loose fitting skate, new skates or 3mm booties with socks... Seriously, if you need the 3mm booties, consider a better fitting skate.
.

I also recommend replacing the stock footbed with Superfeet inserts. They made the biggest difference in my Lightning 10's, taking me from semi-comfortable with the new skates to completely comfortable in them while providing arch support & reducing some of the vibrations from the rough surfaces I skate regularly.

[comprex]

I enjoy the power I can produce with the long frame and big wheel, but I am having a difficult time setting the wheel on the outside edge to start my double push.

You don't need to do it at the ankle.
See Chad here

The set-down is straight in line with the shin and the double push is driven by the hip crossing over the skate.

I also recommend replacing the stock footbed with Superfeet inserts. They made the biggest difference in my Lightning 10's, taking me from semi-comfortable with the new skates to completely comfortable in them while providing arch support & reducing some of the vibrations from the rough surfaces I skate regularly.

Seconded, although it sounds as though your heel isn't moving much at all.

It sounds as though the area around the malleolus is very tight on your foot.

How much are you cinching down the instep strap to achieve secure heel hold?